Sondhi: American capitalists are behind conspiracy to overthrow monarchy
Sondhi Limthongkul has revealed a plan by American capitalists to rule Thailand in a bid to exploit natural resources, including oil, in the Asia Pacific region, exposing Nitirat and Prachatai as receiving money from American corporate-backed funders in a conspiracy to overthrow the monarchy.
Sondhi said in an ASTV programme on 27 Jan that the movement against the throne headed by Nitirat was proof of what he had said since 2005 and 2008, and this was connected to the US attempt to exert its influence to reoccupy Asia Pacific.
‘Don’t think that the US is our friend, because that country only cares about its interests and doesn’t want anyone to get in its way. Even His Majesty the King who promotes the Sufficiency Economy has been accused of being an obstacle of their reforms. Currently, the US has started to lose interest in the Middle East because its oil has been running out, and Europe is facing severe economic problems. So it has turned to Asia Pacific where a middle class is emerging and there are oil reserves in the Gulf of Thailand and the South China Sea,’ he said.
While China is expanding its influence over ASEAN countries, including Burma in particular, the US has had almost all ASEAN countries as its allies, but at this point there remains only Thailand which the US still cannot capture completely in terms of either economics and policy in order to block China.
Nowadays Thais are dominated by three western ideas: 1) elected government, no matter how free and fair the elections are; 2) human rights, depending on which side the US chooses to support; and 3) transparency, again applied in a way which serves US interests only, he said.
He said that both the Democrat and Republican Parties were under the influence of capitalists: financial capitalists for the former and oil capitalists for the latter, which were equally bad. And at the end of the day, they serve each others’ interests.
In a strategic plan for the US to conquer the world, American corporate-backed organizations including, for example, George Soros’ Open Society and the US Congress-funded National Endowment for Democracy (NED) have propagated a ‘universal discourse’, providing support for democracy in countries where there are subversive movements. Other organizations such as Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have the duty to support and publicize their cause, claiming human rights abuses in China and so on.
‘This sounds beautiful, but all of these are tools of the West to interfere in other countries,’ he said
Several American organizations are behind Thai NGOs. The Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), for example, which is dominated by financial, energy, arms, food, and pharmaceutical capitalists, and which ‘has published an article stating that the Thai King is an obstacle to political reform’, is funding Thai NGOs and certain members of Nitirat.
The National Endowment for Democracy (NED) has also given ‘nearly one million US dollars’ to Thai NGOs, particularly Prachatai, ‘whose Director has been prosecuted for lèse majesté,’ which has received ‘US$500,000 to train local leaders to understand the roles of Members of Parliament who are essentially red shirts.’
Although Prachatai has denied that the funding has no bearing on its news coverage, he said that he did not believe that, because ‘this website has always encroached upon and insulted the institution all along.’
‘This money has come to those people including leftists, NGOs, academics, Prachatai and underground groups to undermine the monarchy. These people claim freedoms, offend the monarchy and make subversive calls to abolish Article 112. This has been supported by farangs. The money is to support vicious capitalists, the Pheu Thai Party and the government, to amend the Constitution, to destroy its checks and balances, to seize power from the courts and the military, to buy politicians and academics, and to promote globalized capitalism and worldly values,’ he said.
Sondhi’s bibliographical links:
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/exposed-indy-newspaper-funded-...
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/confirmed-thailands-pro-democr...
http://www.ned.org/where-we-work/asia/Thailand
http://www.us-asean.org/us-thai-fta/ITC.pdf
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/06/corporate-funded-peoples-movem...
http://thanong.tripod.com/03072001.htm
http://www.cfr.org/thailand/conversation-thaksin-shinawatra-prime-minist...
http://www.usasean.org/Aboutus/members.asp
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/02/flash-back-thailands-thaksin-a...
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/02/egypt-today-thailand-tomorrow_...
http://www.thailandwto.org/Doc/Pub/PubCur/Current5_FTA_ThaiUs.pdf
http://ttmp.trf.or.th/ttmp_may-aug45_1.doc
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It would be terrible if
It would be terrible if Sondhi had to get on a public forum and try to hold his own with some of those evil farangs he so accuses.
While erudite and talented, Sondhi wastes time dwelling in ancient wonderlands, like the rest of his kind, where forced respect is de jure every day.
In a land where reputations are protected by criminal prosecution, whatever Sondhi says about the west in defense of his fantasies is worth the paper it was not written on.
Not every Farang is here to
Not every Farang is here to preach American Imperialism. I totally agree with Khun Sondhi's overview of the Americans goal to meddle and control as many countries around the world as possible.
Why is it common knowledge that the next American target is South East Asia?
They have recently made agreements with Australia and are working on other countries in the region such as the Philippines, to have a substantial military presence.
They call it posturing against the influence of China, but frankly it is Paranoia and Greed for Power.
It is about time that the Americans were pushed back to America, and taught to mind their own business. They have no business meddling with the internal affairs of Thailand or any other country.
As an American I agree with
As an American I agree with your assessment of the present American regime's intentions.
The 'only' part I disagree with is the wild disconnect... and your reference to Khun Sondhi makes me suspect that you are Yet Another Member of the Tendentious Collective yourself... between people here in Thailand wanting relief from that dictator's wet-dream, Article 112, and anything to do with the USA.
Same goes for the Niti Raat's quite temperate suggestion that things simply be rolled-back and re-done from 18 September 2005, the Black Night of the Last Thai Coup, for that is what the Niti Raat and their supporters aim to ensure : that the coup of 2005 was the last Thai coup.
But since most Thais would agree with the Niti Raat on those points your TC must discover a link between the Devil and the Niti Raat, and Thaksin seems to have been insufficiently evil in that regard, so now the link is to the Great Satan itself.
But after the initial, delightful rush of the two-second hate for the USA passes.... one gets back to the matter at hand : repealing, or reforming, the monstrous Article 112, the roll-back and re-do of the damage done by the Royal Thai Army with its coup of 2005, and the fashioning of a new Thai Constitution... one that begins with the assertion of the absolute sovereignty of the Thai people.
And that business has nothing to do with the USA. Other than to serve as a positive example for us Americans... who need to roll-back and re-do the Supreme Court coup of 2000 ourselves, and all our government's subsequent wrong actions of the 21st Century.
The coup was executed in 2006
The coup was executed in 2006 - not 2005, on the eve of which Thaksin Shinawatra was in New York City before the corporate fascist Council on Foreign Relations giving his foreign sponsors a progress report on his terms in office. Before that, Thaksin had worked for Carlyle, a US equity firm WHILE HOLDING POLITICAL OFFICE.
http://www.cfr.org/thailand/conversation-thaksin-shinawatra-prime-minister-thailand-rush-transcript-federal-news-service-inc/p11482
When he became PM he attempted to ram through a US FTA without parliamentary approval. These corporations behind this FTA are the same ones the UDD is consorting with now seeking continued support. Additionally, Thaksin mass murdered 2,500 Thais in the streets with extra-judicial executions - an atrocity he still claims as a feather in his cap. He rolled back checks and balances, initiated his own "Lese Thaksin" campaign, and began mobilizing factions to consolidate power he intended to perpetually maintain - power he now seeks incessantly to restore.
Thaksin wasn't merely pursuing unpopular policies his opposition found distasteful, he was a mass murdering, megalomaniacal, autocratic dictator working for foreign corporate financier interests. If ever a coup was justified in Thai history, the one carried out in 2006 was it. Nitirat IS the UDD, dressed up as academics, but with all their activities well attended by the UDD mobs, the cult of Thaksin, and even Robert Amsterdam, Thaksin's corporate lobbyist.
http://illinoisredshirts.blogspot.com/2012/01/112_1142.html woops - I guess no one was supposed to know that ... and it certainly wasn't covered on Amsterdam's blog.
They demand the 2006 coup's results be rolled back but refuse to acknowledge the legitimate concerns that triggered it in the first place. WHEN Nitirat can identify both the cause and effect of the 2006 coup, offer solutions to roll back the autocracy on BOTH sides, they may have case. For now, they are yet another treasonous tentacle, each day more overtly working in tandem with Thaksin, the UDD, and their foreign sponsors to destroy, not reform Thailand.
I am Scottish, neither pro
I am Scottish, neither pro nor against the Americans. But without the Americans I do believe that there would be more American Indians still in existence. In a much larger scale without the Americans there would be far less Europeans alive, perhaps I would be one of them. I believe we have a lot to thank the Americans for and hope they will always be our allies. Perhaps Mr Sonthi has different ideas of allies.
"I believe we have a lot to
"I believe we have a lot to thank the Americans for and hope they will always be our allies. "
2 million dead Iraqis? 10's of thousands of dead Libyans, Somalians, Yemenis, Syrians, etc.? Corporate fascism stretched out across the planet? America as an ideal, what it was supposed to be in 1776 is something I am thankful for.
The bloodstained imperialism that started almost immediately after acquiring independence from England is NOT something I am thankful for. I believe Sondhi is looking at what the US has just done to nations around the world, mired in political chaos that has cost people their lives and threatens their future, and has decided that is not something he wants to live with.
What about you?
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/12/2011-year-of-dupe.html
Your insinuation the US is an
Your insinuation the US is an imperialist nation is right.
But that does not mean their intention is to overthrow the monarchy (the upholding of which has served both sides well) nor that freedom of speech and altering the LM laws have the slightest thing to do with this.
On the contrary the US wants to keep the royal household and military intact as long as possible.
Robald, then perhaps you can
Robald, then perhaps you can explain why the west has groomed Thaksin since before taking office in 2001 - why since 2006 some of the largest lobbying firms in the world have been mobilized on Thaksin and his UDD's behalf, and why Prachatai is funded millions of baht a year by the US government to undermine and destabilize Thailand's sovereign institutions?
You say something that sounds reasonable only to people who have not seen the evidence. Of course you have seen it, numerous times to the point where you accuse me of being tedious and repetitive. One must then wonder why you still insist on pretending the evidence doesn't exist.
PS Robert Amsterdam, surrounded by a sea of red shirts - that is Nitirat in a nutshell. I think the word farce, or fraud simply doesn't describe it. It is a red shirt rally. I knew it from the beginning - all this is a rebranding for UDD - nothing more. Nitirat can at least stop tip toeing in fear of losing its legitimacy, it's lost, and just go into full duplicity mode. Maybe Nattawut will chair the next conference and for a finale they can torch the auditorium, then blame the deaths on Suthep.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2012/01/globalist-lawyer-attends-color.html
Shades of TC, that
Shades of TC, that Tendentious Collective, that avante-garde of the rearguard of 'elite' privilege.
Sondhi has unambiguously
Sondhi has unambiguously called for the military to overthrow the elected government. He should be in jail for sedition and treason right now.
Won't happen of course.
25022, Your absolutely
25022, Your absolutely correct, in China, isn't that where he is / was, his family would already have had the bill for a bullet.
Whatever happened to the
Whatever happened to the Finland Plan that Sondhi used to make so much of? I suppose it's in the same bottom drawer as The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Ready to be pulled out when there's people to be gulled.
Sondhi is a complete loon,
Sondhi is a complete loon, living in a fantasy world of myth and lies.
Ha ha! He's quoting
Ha ha! He's quoting Landdestroyer. Fantastic. That's the snake eating its own tail if ever I saw it.
Only I in turn source and
Only I in turn source and even post up documents signed by Thaksin and his Wall Street/London lobbyists, letters written by and posted on official UDD websites, Prachatai's own "About Us" section, and the US National Endowment for Democracy's own website.
It isn't going to be difficult for anyone with an objective mind to look at the evidence and see that Sondhi for the most part is telling the truth, or in many ways, that the truth is much more disturbing.
Please explain to me how Prachatai is receiving MILLIONS of baht a year from the US government, particularly the National Endowment for Democracy which has a documented history of duplicity and is current chaired by verified corporate fascists and warmongers, yet there are no obligations or expectations on how those funds will be used? Have you ever heard of someone REALLY throwing out millions of dollars and not expecting anything in return? What immense naivety!
Again, Dan, while you are in good company with your empty, emotional tirades, when it comes to actually countering the claims made by Sondhi, you fail categorically. Of course you, Prachatai & company have had half a year to defend why Prachatai, the UDD, and Thaksin are all receiving funding and backing from the same circle of corporate fascists in the US and have failed.
Try doing this Dan - especially if anyone is to take you or Prachatai seriously - try actually picking some of the facts I present and explaining how they are either "not true" or how they are being "misinterpreted." I have explained in immense detail what an absolute fraud NED is - so even if Prachatai is not taking orders from them as other NGOs have been caught red handed doing, why would they take money from such tainted sources? Even if NED was a noble institution, how can Prachatai call itself independent when their existence is solely dependent on US government & US corporate funding?
Dan - say all you want about Sondhi, but Prachatai's story isn't adding up. And is it that hard to believe that the US and Britain, who have between the two of them spent centuries in pursuit of empire, are still pursuing global hegemony and are doing so through institutions like NED, Freedom House, and Open Society, especially when chair members of these organizations have SIGNED THEIR NAMES TO DOCUMENTS confessing aspirations of global hegemony??? (See: Project for a New American Century)
"Only I in turn source and
"Only I in turn source and even post up documents signed by Thaksin and his Wall Street/London lobbyists, letters written by and posted on official UDD websites, Prachatai's own "About Us" section, and the US National Endowment for Democracy's own website."
This is such BS, what you do is assemble very dodgy factoids, often from very dodgy sources, then you draw even more dodgy conclusions and present them as fact. It's almost tragic on it's own, but to see you gyrate whan challlenged makes you an eternal weaner. You ought to find a different job. A proper job.
"It isn't going to be difficult for anyone with an objective mind to look at the evidence and see that Sondhi for the most part is telling the truth, or in many ways, that the truth is much more disturbing."
Evidence? Sondhi Lim is as dopey and deluded as you are, perhaps even more so.
Scratch that, he isn't more deluded than you or he wouldn't be able to scratch his own ass.
First - more name calling and
First - more name calling and a whole comment devoid of even one point of contest backed with facts or documented evidence.
Second, "what you do is assemble very dodgy factoids, often from very dodgy sources..." You mean like the National Endowment for Democracy's official website stating they fund Prachatai - a fact that Prachatai tried to hide and play down for months before finally disclosing it in their own About Us page which I also cite?
http://www.ned.org/where-we-work/asia/thailand
http://prachatai.com/english/aboutus
Or maybe you mean from the UDD's own Illinois chapter website where they published their letter bragging about consorting with the Wall Street 1% for support before the elections in 2011? Or perhaps the US Senate archives which are required by law to make public corporate-lobbyist registrations which shows several of the largest firms on Earth have been backing Thaksin since 2006 - many of whom are directly linked to either to sponsors of Prachatai & UDD, or Thaksin's days at the Carlyle Group (or both).
http://illinoisredshirts.blogspot.com/2011_04_24_archive.html
http://disclosures.house.gov/ld/pdfform.aspx?id=300322917
http://disclosures.house.gov/ld/pdfform.aspx?id=200059128
http://www.fara.gov/docs/3634-Exhibit-AB-20070125-4.pdf
http://soprweb.senate.gov/index.cfm?event=getFilingDetails&filingID=1AA1A98A-2494-44E5-A5CB-F658EB445C4B
Seems you are the one being "dodgy," literally dodging debate by not posting a single example of what you claim is "dodgy." I have now shown you direct links to the sources I used. I fully agree that Prachatai, the UDD, NED, and the US Senate are all very dodgy indeed, so are people who see this convergence of interests and still deny improprieties have arisen.
Too bad Sondhi has ample
Too bad Sondhi has ample evidence - this is just like Prachatai pretending they are independent when they are on record funded millions of baht a year by the US government. Thaksin is backed by the same US government, the UDD leaders BRAGGED about being in Washington last April before the elections consorting with the National Endowment for Democracy and the Fortune 500 of Wall Street.
This isn't a fantasy or myth - this is verified, documented fact -and once again you here at Prachatai attack with baseless rhetoric when the logical, reasonable and virtuous course of action would be to take any of Sondhi's points and expose them with VERIFIED FACTUAL REBUTTALS.
Millions of people have this information and they will check it and they will find it to be true. Even Red Shirts aren't going to go along with foreign corporate fascists yanking the country out from under them. This I know personally from dealing with them on a daily basis - they are misled, but not stupid nor bad people.
Prachatai on a number of occasions has had the board of directors of NED given to them and they have failed categorical to defend WHY they still accept money from overt corporate fascist warmongers. They "claim" they are getting millions of baht a year from these people but there is no obligations? That is difficult to believe especially considering the NED itself is a fraud and that Prachatai had HID this funding to begin with. If it is benign, why hide it?
Francis Fukuyama: Neo-Con, Project for a New American Century (PNAC) signatory, pro-war
Zalmay Khalilzad: Neo-Con PNAC signatory, pro-war + corporate lobbyist
Will Marshall: Neo-Con PNAC signatory, pro-war
Vin Weber: Neo-Con PNAC signatory, pro-war + corporate lobbyist
Richard Gephardt: pro-war, corporate lobbyist for big-pharma, Boeing & Ford Motor Co.
John Bohn: petrochemicals, corporate consultant & international banker for 13 years
Rita DiMartino: CFR, AT&T "Vice President of Congressional Relations"
Kenneth Duberstein: Boeing, ConocoPhillips, Mack-Cali Realty, CFR member & Fannie Mac
William Galston: Brookings Institution
Moises Naim: Carnegie Endowment for International Peace
Robert Miller: corporate lawyer
Larry Liebenow: US Chamber of Commerce, Center for International Private Enterprise
But the evidence is all you
But the evidence is all you Tony and I have shown many times at this site that you lie and concoct things. The fact that a looney fascist like Sondhi repeats your concoctions should be cause for concern, not celebration.
Name calling is not a
Name calling is not a rational debate. It is intellectual capitulation to your opposition that you have no rational defense for your stance. Again, the evidence stands - there are direct ties to the absolute worst of humanity and the UDD, Thaksin, and Prachatai, and then direct connections between these three supposedly independent elements which are no more "independent" of Thaksin than your left and right hands are from your body.
It is turning out that "Joss Stick" is a UDD member who even took to the UDD stage - the UDD which is working directly for Thaksin and is literally led by his political party members - the UDD which had fielded 300-500 armed militants who murdered 7 soldiers in a single night and maimed and killed scores more over the course of their attempted insurrection in April and May of 2010.
Who do you think you are? You think you can murder people, work with foreign bankers and industrialists to sell out a nation and continue to do so with absolute impunity? You cannot, you will not. I will say it again, name calling and the games don't work anymore. Playing the victim when you work for the scum of humanity who have the blood of millions on their hands isn't going to work anymore.
This is the source for
This is the source for Sondhi's claims: a person who simply makes things up, exaggerates and accuses others of his own transgressions while signed up with conspiracy monger Christian right-wingers.
Note the Pol Potist "scum" label again.
300-500 armed men: a complete fabrication.
And you come up with absolute trash claims like "Who do you think you are? You think you can murder people, work with foreign bankers and industrialists to sell out a nation and continue to do so with absolute impunity?" That is simply a maniac claiming that a retired correspondent is a murder and working with international capitalists. This is complete and utter lunacy. Name-calling? Surely you are jesting. Its your stock in trade.
"300-500 armed men: a
"300-500 armed men: a complete fabrication. " Really.... ?
International spokesman for the protesters, Sean Boonpracong, told Reuters elements of the army were with their movement, including the black-clad mystery gunmen that took part in the April 10 bloodbath. He stated, "They are a secret unit within the army that disagrees with what's going on. Without them, the black clad men, there would have been a whole lot more deaths and injuries."
in.mobile.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idINIndia-47881220100421
The suspected leader of these gunmen, renegade general Khattiya Sawasdipol, known as "Seh Daeng," further damned earlier denials by admitting to commanding 300 armed men trained for ''close encounters'' and carrying M79 grenade launchers, before withdrawing his comment in later interviews.
http://www.theage.com.au/world/red-commander-saw-himself-as-thai-william-wallace-20100518-vc54.html
The HRW report on page 62 states:
"As the army attempted to move on the camp, they were confronted by well-armed men who fired M16 and AK-47 assault rifles at them, particularly at the Khok Wua intersection on Rajdamnoen Road. They also fired grenades from M79s and threw M67 hand grenades at the soldiers. News footage and videos taken by protesters and tourists show several soldiers lying unconscious and bleeding on the ground, as well as armed men operating with a high degree of coordination and military skills. According to some accounts, they specifically aimed at the commanding officers of the army units involved in the crowd dispersal operations, sowing panic among the soldiers. Human Rights Watch investigations concluded this group consisted of Black Shirts deployed among the UDD protesters. "
Now, that being said, where's your evidence Albert... that Seh Daeng, Boonpracong, and HRW fabricated these claims?
And what do "Christian right-wingers" have to do with ANYTHING? You mean the fake-Christian Neo-Cons that are funding Prachatai millions year-to-year?
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/02/neo-cons-for-human-rights.html
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/exposed-indy-newspaper-funded-by-us.html
Retired indeed.
in.mobile.reuters.com/article
in.mobile.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idINIndia-47881220100421 - no mention of 300-500.
http://www.theage.com.au/world/red-commander-saw-himself-as-thai-william-wallace-20100518-vc54.html - cites an unnamed source saying that Seh daeng claimed 300.
HRW claims no numbers in the bit you cite but does refer to other sources saying 30-50.
So your evidence is Seh Daeng. If you believe him on this then you need to believe him on everything else he said, and that wouldn't work.
So you are making it up and even exaggerating Seh Daeng's own figures.
You fabricate.
Of course, no comment on the other lies I mention. You are a hopeless conspiracy theorist and the "theorist" is doing the word an injustice.
Loonies united. Sondhi has
Loonies united. Sondhi has bought Tony's claptrap and made it into another "plan." Looney yellow shirts have been circulating Tony's stuff for a while and it has taken the desperation associated with Nitirat for them to finally buy it.
ASTV's Manager website is
ASTV's Manager website is ranked 14 in Thailand and has a comparable audience to that of Russia Today (RT). Prachatai's days of skulking in the shadows, misrepresenting themselves, their foreign funding and their agenda are over. So are the days of name calling and labeling fact-based accusations as "looney." That's not going to work anymore.
Some of the evidence cited by Sondhi include Thaksin's official lobbying registration papers from the US Senate's own archives, the US State Department's National Endowment for Democracy's own website, and the UDD leaders' own letter bragging about their trip to Washington to consort with the Wall Street 1%.
Instead of refuting any of this, Albert, you, Prachatai, and company have decided to instead name call in the face of a carefully researched, factual, well presented 2 hour presentation - now THAT is true desperation!
ASTV-Manager ranked no. 14
ASTV-Manager ranked no. 14 presumably means that there are 13 more sensible sites? But maybe not. Only TC would know much about what RT is doing.
There are likely connections
There are likely connections in one way or the other. It's part of what we do to obtain assistance from others for our cause.
But to assign motive of one to be motive of all, to associate faults of many to those of the specific is itself illogical and invalid argument. Days over? Maybe ASTV's Daze is over...
Perhaps the man has a recommendation for funding and enacting needed change in Thailand from sources within the country that do not have their own unjust interests to serve? Is one group noble, the other not?
There is NO JUSTIFICATION for
There is NO JUSTIFICATION for Prachatai to take money from the corporate-fascist warmongers of the National Endowment for Democracy who include amongst others...
Francis Fukuyama: Neo-Con, Project for a New American Century (PNAC) signatory, pro-war
Zalmay Khalilzad: Neo-Con PNAC signatory, pro-war + corporate lobbyist
Will Marshall: Neo-Con PNAC signatory, pro-war
Vin Weber: Neo-Con PNAC signatory, pro-war + corporate lobbyist
Richard Gephardt: pro-war, corporate lobbyist for big-pharma, Boeing & Ford Motor Co.
John Bohn: petrochemicals, corporate consultant & international banker for 13 years
Rita DiMartino: CFR, AT&T "Vice President of Congressional Relations"
Kenneth Duberstein: Boeing, ConocoPhillips, Mack-Cali Realty, CFR member & Fannie Mac
William Galston: Brookings Institution
Moises Naim: Carnegie Endowment for International Peace
Robert Miller: corporate lawyer
Larry Liebenow: US Chamber of Commerce (a chief proponent of SOPA), Center for International Private Enterprise
Patricia Friend: AFL-CIO (a proponent of SOPA)
It is pretty clear that not only is NED NOT a proponent of supporting "freedom" worldwide, they have a documented track record of doing the exact opposition, or as Noam Chomsky has said, they are attempting to "impose what is called democracy, meaning rule by the rich and the powerful, without interference by the mob but within the framework of formal electoral procedures." NED-supported "Prachatai-like" organizations around the world have over the last year overtly overthrown, or attempted to overthrow governments and replace them with corporate-fascist stooges like Tunisia's Moncef Marzouki and Libya's Abdurrahim el-Keib, formally of the Petroleum Institute, sponsored by British Petroleum (BP), Shell, France's Total, the Japan Oil Development Company, and the Abu Dhabi National Oil Company. This is absolute fraud - not progress.
And they didn't just take one donation, or a small donation, they have sustained themselves entirely on millions of baht given to them from the US government year-to-year by these people. They have tried to hide it, downplay it, and spin it. This is not the actions of a noble cause - but an insidious one lying about how they operate, and WHY they operate.
I disagree. Prachatai should
I disagree. Prachatai should take money from any group that isn't right-wing, fascist, conspiracy mongers signed up with the Christian right in the U.S. and linked with the most horrendous royalists in Thailand.
Only NED, who funds Prachatai
Only NED, who funds Prachatai millions of baht year-to-year is run by "right-wing, fascist, conspiracy mongers signed up with the [fake] Christian right in the U.S."
Neo-Cons for Human Rights?
NED & Freedom House are run by Warmongering Imperialists
And finally...
NED's funding of Prachatai
Land Destroyer provides no
Land Destroyer provides no information on funding.
Links to Infowars.com which is Alex Jones. Infowars.com accepts advertising from Midas Resources (http://www.midasresources.com/store/store.php?ref=62&promo=specialOffer) which is “One of the world's premiere precious metals firms, parent company of The Genesis Communications Network, proud sponsor of the Campaign For Liberty and creator of the Ron Paul Air Corps.”
The Ron Paul initiated Campaign for Liberty (http://www.campaignforliberty.com/about.php) draws inspiration from a range of conservatives and libertarians and localists. According to University of Georgia political scientist Keith Poole, Paul had the most conservative voting record of any member of Congress from 1937 to 2002 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Paul).
Midas Resources was founded by Ted Anderson. Ted Anderson and Alex Jones are collaborators, with Jones appearing on the Genesis Communications Network, where Anderson is the CEO (http://www.gcnlive.com/contact.php). It was established to promote the sale of precious metals (http://www.gcnlive.com/faq.php). Its front page advertisers include Christian holster sellers and a range of survival products (for surviving the coming global food crisis) along with Ron Paul sites and Russia Television/Russia Today. GCN has interviewed right-wing, anti-Semite Lyndon LaRouche (http://www.larouchepub.com/lar/2008/interviews/080401jack_blood_genesis.html), seen as a political extremist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon_LaRouche). LaRouche also has a fan in another link at Land Destroyer in F.W. Engdahl, yet another conspiracy theorist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F._William_Engdahl), who believes in global cooling (not warming).
Jones and Anderson have
Jones and Anderson have promoted conspiracy rants by people associated with the extremist John Birch Society (http://mediamatters.org/blog/201101290003).
Companies linked in these groups, such as Free Speech Systems (http://freespeechsystems.com/) provide no links or information; certainly not practicing what they preach.
Land Destroyer links to a range of other conspiracy theory websites that never provide any details about funding. One of these is to the site of long-time conspiracy theorist Webster Tarpley who has a remarkable Wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webster_Tarpley). Another is to anti-fluoride, anti-vaccination, Bin Laden is alive (Alex Jones too), and conspiracy theorist Jim Corr who is also on about the threat or One World Government (http://www.jimcorr.com/).
RT, previously known as Russia Today, is a global multilingual television news network based in the Russian Federation run by the state-owned state-run RIA Novosti. Interestingly, all of these sites link to RT and several of the names above have appeared, including Engdahl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F._William_Engdahl).
Now the quite mad Sondhi Limthongkul has joined this not very auspicious circle (and it is a small one) of conspiracy theorists.
I receive no compensation of
I receive no compensation of any kind for my research which is, unlike Prachatai, truly independent - none through advertisements, none through commissions, none through donations (there is no donation button on my blog) and despite your empty accusations of everyone being a "conspiracy theorist" which sounds incredibly paranoid when you don't bother to back any of it up with evidence, you STILL haven't addressed the fact that...
Everything Sondhi cited was not from me, rather the official NED website, Prachatai's own About Us section, Foreign Policy magazine article written by the US Secretary of State, the US ASEAN Business Council corporate roster, and the official archives of the US Senate providing signed documents regarding Thaksin's extensive foreign backing via the largest lobbying firms on Earth. All I did was combine it into one place. I am not saying these things, NED, Prachatai, the US Senate, Thaksin's lobbyists, and the UDD's own website did... if you don't like the sound of it, take it up with them, whom you support so adamantly.
You can build up as many straw men as you want, knock them down all day, but that giant edifice of solid stone truth towers above you and blots out your juvenile attempts at diversion.
You're going to have to do a LOT better than that!
NED's write-up at Wiki
NED's write-up at Wiki indicates it does not support dictatorships. Is that the problem? Oh, and it does support some organizations that critize the US.......hmmmmmmmmmmmm..........
Wikipedia is not a source -
Wikipedia is not a source - its citations are. Where are your citations? And your statement directly contradicts the constitution of NED's own board of directors and their thoroughly documented history. They ARE a dictatorship - representing a corporate fascist global oligarchy.
This is very crude - simply going to Wikipedia and claiming - "Well NED doesn't say they are a fraud, it must be true." Do you always take politicians and their contrived institutions for their word? Can a grown adult be this incredibly naive? Simply look at NED's BoD - they count on people not seeing past the red white and blue on their homepage and actually examining their backgrounds, associations, and admitted/signed agendas.
Starting with the Project for a New American Century, signed by NED BoD members Francis Fukuyama, Zalmay Khalilzad, Will Marshall, and Vin Weber, we can see that perhaps if they don't "support dictators" abroad it is only because they believe in building their own dictatorship to achieve global hegemony. This is a stated, signed, confessed, fact.
Please visit the Project for a New American Century and browse their statements. You will find many Freedom House trustees are also confessed global hegemonic warmongers...
http://www.newamericancentury.org/
Still jumping off the deep
Still jumping off the deep end and being totally unreasonable. Wikie is sure as heck a source, albeit full of citations. You are saying Wiki can't be used as a reference...but your material can. I'm kind of lost here. A source of information can be primary or secondary and of course, tertiary...and in some recent cases, totally imaginary.
Primary source is a term used in a number of disciplines to describe source material that is closest to the person, information, period, or idea being studied.
In the study of history as an academic discipline, a primary source (also called original source or evidence) is an artifact, a document, a recording, or other source of information that was created at the time under study. It serves as an original source of information about the topic. Similar definitions are used in library science, and other areas of scholarship. In journalism, a primary source can be a person with direct knowledge of a situation, or a document created by such a person.
Primary sources are distinguished from secondary sources, which cite, comment on, or build upon primary sources, though the distinction is not a sharp one. In scholarship, a secondary source[1][2] is a document or recording that relates or discusses information originally presented elsewhere. A secondary source contrasts with a primary source, which is an original source of the information being discussed; a primary source can be a person with direct knowledge of a situation, or a document created by such a person.
Secondary sources involve generalization, analysis, synthesis, interpretation, or evaluation of the original information. Primary and secondary are relative terms, and some sources may be classified as primary or secondary, depending on how it is used. An even higher level, the tertiary source, such as an encyclopedia or dictionary, resembles a secondary source in that it contains analysis, but attempts to provide a broad introductory overview of a topic.
It appears that Prachatai &
It appears that Prachatai & Co., including Bangkok Pundit, dismiss Sondhi's presentation not based on any factual argument, but simply because someone they don't like personally combined all the direct sources in their reports used by Sondhi.
Sondhi is not citing me - he is citing NED's official website, the US Senate's official archives, the UDD's own Illinois chapter website, Prachatai's own "About Us" page, the US-ASEAN Business Association's membership roster, the CFR's transcript of Thaksin's talk before the council on the eve of the 2006 coup. I simply combined all these links in one place.
It is not "Tony" saying that Prachatai is funded by the US State Department through the National Endowment for Democracy, it is NED's official website that says this...
http://www.ned.org/where-we-work/asia/thailand
And thanks to my efforts, now Prachatai's own "About Us" section....
http://prachatai.com/english/aboutus
It is not "Tony" saying that Thaksin is being backed by the largest corporate lobbyists on Earth - it is the US Senate's own official archives which contain the signed documents proving this...
http://disclosures.house.gov/ld/pdfform.aspx?id=200059128
http://www.fara.gov/docs/3634-Exhibit-AB-20070125-4.pdf
http://soprweb.senate.gov/index.cfm?event=getFilingDetails&filingID=1AA1A98A-2494-44E5-A5CB-F658EB445C4B
http://disclosures.house.gov/ld/pdfform.aspx?id=300322917
It was not "Tony" that declared "America's Pacific Century," it was US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton who did so in Foreign Policy magazine...
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/10/11/americas_pacific_century?page=full
You don't have to believe me - because nothing I say begs you to believe me - rather you have to decide whether or not you are going to ignore signed documents I present, drawn from the official websites from the institutions and agendas you defend, which illustrate a divergence between their noble stated agenda and their actual, demonstrative, insidious agenda.
Again, deal with the evidence presented rather than trying to convince me Wikipedia is a real source. It isn't unless you provide the citation because anyone can literally write anything on any subject.
Sometimes I wonder about the
Sometimes I wonder about the mental health of that man and his followers. It will all end in tears.
And please shut it, Tony. If you have EVIDENCE then just present it to ASTV, I think Sondhi would gladly welcome you with open arms. You're basically his long lost spiritual brother, anyhow.
The evidence is in the links
The evidence is in the links in the above article you apparently didn't bother to even read before commenting.
If you had, you'd see that my evidence was cited by Sondhi during his presentation - and that my evidence in turn comes directly from the US National Endowment for Democracy's own webpage, official US Senate archives, the UDD's own website, Prachatai's "About Us" page, and so on.
So where amongst my evidence do you believe I have lied, or misrepresented, or which sources that I cited do you believe are unreliable? That would a rational comment to make, not simply telling me to shut up, and implying that I am mentally ill, because I said something that makes you uncomfortable.
You are practicing an irrational campaign against Lese Prachatai, Lese Thaksin, and Lese Nitirat as vigorously as you accuse the government of pursuing a campaign against Lese Majeste.
Tony, if you didn't act like
Tony, if you didn't act like quite such a mental case, people might (might, not will) be tempted to listen a bit; behaving like the muttering weirdo in the corner who smells of stale urine and has pockets full of string and squirrel droppings is not the way to win over strangers...so why not try turning down the volume a bit, eh.
It doesn't bother you Dan
It doesn't bother you Dan that out of 30+ comments you and your peers have categorically failed, outright not only to address the topic of the article above with any sort of factual, cogent rational argument, but to provide any facts at all in any regard as you all take turns insulting me? Do you not find this incredibly indicative of intellectual capitulation?
Are you going to address the facts presented, including Prachatai's questionable foreign funding, Thaksin's lobbying records, UDD's signed confessions of consorting with Wall Street's 0.1%, the US-ASEAN Business Council's corporate membership, or Hillary Clinton's Foreign Policy article regarding the reassertion of American hegemony across Asia? All of which are sourced directly from the accused's own websites and official government archives.
Or are you resigned to talking of "stale urine" and "squirrel droppings." Somehow, in the strange, corporate-fascist funded world of Prachatai, talking facts makes you a "mental case" while endless juvenile name calling makes you "normal." I suppose in this world - I choose to be the odd one out.
Why is Sonthi using the
Why is Sonthi using the revered king as a bullet in his gun. Is he not ashamed ?
" the US has had almost all
" the US has had almost all ASEAN countries as its allies, but at this point there remains only Thailand which the US still cannot capture completely in terms of either economics and policy"
This is funny. Thailand is the one country the USA has al;ways had in its pocket ever since it bailed it out after WWII and saved it from international humiliation as an enemy state for having collaborated with the Japanese.
"Nowadays Thais are dominated by three western ideas: 1) elected government, no matter how free and fair the elections are"
This is a beautiful Freudian kind of slip. "elected government NO MATTER HOW FREE AND FAIR"! In other words, he is complaining elected governments are accepted even when free and fair! beautiful.
"This money has come to those people including leftists"
Leftists! Oh dear god no, anything but THAT!!!
then he says: "The money is to support vicious capitalists"
This is the bottom of the pit isn't it. VICIOUS LEFTIST CAPITALISTS!
Of course he has a point. By jailing people for twenty years for sending four sms messages and destroying the lives of 18 year old students who dare speak their mind...these loonies will SAVE THE WORLD........
Sondhi is not mad, just
Sondhi is not mad, just utterly cynical.
Of course Sondhi buys into
Of course Sondhi buys into Tony’s conspiracy theories. Sondhi also believes in ritually placing 6 used sanitary pads in a hexagram shape around the Equestrian Statue of King Rama V to counter black magic performed by a Cambodian black wizard.
44+ comments now - and not a
44+ comments now - and not a single one of you dared actually deal with the facts presented by Sondhi in his presentation. Again, these aren't theories, nor Sondhi referencing me, these are:
1. Prachatai's own About Us page listing their extensive foreign-funding
2. US State Department's National Endowment for Democracy (NED) website listing Prachatai as a receipient of funding.
3. NED's Board of Directors clearly illustrating it is run by Neo-Cons, corporate fascists, monopolists, and warmongers.
4. US Senate archives containing Thaksin's lobbying registration - which include Edelman PR - the lobbyist Kenneth Adelman also sits as a trustee of Freedom House frequently cited by Prachatai - and who frequently supports Prachatai.
5. UDD's own website bragging about their audience with the US-ASEAN Business Council - Wall Street's .01%, NED (which also funds Prachatai), and HRW. It should also be noted that the same website has confirmed Robert Amsterdam, Thaksin's and UDD's lawyer/lobbyist attended Nitirat's, (UDD's rebrand) conference.
6. Thaksin's ties to Carlyle - which was even listed on the Carlyle website halfway through Thaksin's term as PM.
7. The fact that Carlyle Group member James Baker - through his lobbying firm, was still supporting Thaksin after 2006.
And the list goes on and on. You could also add in Noam Chomsky exposing NED as an insidious, elitist fraud back in 1993, the fact that NED-funded groups led the protests that overthrew the government of Tunisia, and that a Western groomed, NED-funded stooge is now president - same goes for Libya where US resident, "Professor and Chairman" of the Petroleum Institute is now PM.
You say "conspiracy theory" because you are intellectually incapable of defending yourself, and the lies peddled here at Prachatai. The facts aren't going away, in fact, as time goes on, they will be further vindicated.
Tony is a global conspiracy
Tony is a global conspiracy theorist who does "research" that makes a conspiracy like magic. It is a method seen at his companion sites such as Infowars.com and the notorious Alex Jones. It links him with very shady businesses like Midas Resources (http://www.midasresources.com/store/store.php?ref=62&promo=specialOffer) and related and opaque companies that promote the sale of gold and silver along with global conspiracy rants. It allies him with conservative libertarians like Ron Paul and Ted Anderson and with extremist Christian organizations.
The long links these groups have with right-wing extremists and anti-Semites like Lyndon LaRouche (http://www.larouchepub.com/lar/2008/interviews/080401jack_blood_genesis.html) indicates the heritage of these conspiracy groups to the old rightist extremists that have also been associated with Nazis (e.g the John Birch Society - http://mediamatters.org/blog/201101290003. The LaRouche link to Land Destroyer is also seen in F.W. Engdahl, yet another conspiracy theorist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F._William_Engdahl).
Tony is also quoting and linking - like all of the above - to RT, previously known as Russia Today, run by the state-owned state-run RIA Novosti. What does that link mean? Is there a funding link?
Now the connection is made to Sondhi Limthongkul and the yellow shirted ultra-royalists who have links to LaRouche and have repeatedly been racist, have engaged in all kinds of hate speech against political opponents and repeatedly come up with conspiracies that engender further hate (much like Tony himself).
You are made and unmade by your connections.
Straw men. You still have
Straw men. You still have failed utterly to deal with the facts presented and are entirely off topic. Here is what you need to address....
1. Prachatai's own About Us page listing their extensive foreign-funding
2. US State Department's National Endowment for Democracy (NED) website listing Prachatai as a receipient of funding.
3. NED's Board of Directors clearly illustrating it is run by Neo-Cons, corporate fascists, monopolists, and warmongers.
4. US Senate archives containing Thaksin's lobbying registration - which include Edelman PR - from which the lobbyist Kenneth Adelman also sits as a trustee of Freedom House frequently cited by Prachatai - and who frequently supports Prachatai.
5. UDD's own website bragging about their audience with the US-ASEAN Business Council - Wall Street's .01%, NED (which also funds Prachatai), and HRW. It should also be noted that the same website has confirmed Robert Amsterdam, Thaksin's and UDD's lawyer/lobbyist attended Nitirat's, (UDD's rebrand) conference.
6. Thaksin's ties to Carlyle - which was even listed on the Carlyle website halfway through Thaksin's term as PM.
7. The fact that Carlyle Group member James Baker - through his lobbying firm, was still supporting Thaksin after 2006.
What it appears to have happened, is you saw some facts that were very upsetting. Instead of verifying whether or not they are true, and dealing with the findings in a logical, rational, honorable manner, you decided instead to attack the messenger. Very juvenile, hardly progressive, hardly in tune with the supposed atmosphere Prachatai claims to be promoting. And as you dug for evidence to attack me, you've found exactly nothing. I have pictures of Elliott Abrams on my blog too - I guess that makes me a Neo-Con by your logic?
You build straw men up - because you CANNOT deal with the facts presented, you are utterly incapable of defending yourself and your claims intellectually. You cannot prove a single accusation you've made against me, and have resorted to making farcically vague associations that are in no way comparable to Prachatai's About Us page literally listing the millions of baht they get from the US government year-to-year.
No denial so we can now
No denial so we can now accept it as fact.
Tony is a global conspiracy theorist. His "research" is not research but constructing nonsensical plots and conspiracies.
It is a method seen at his companion sites such as Infowars.com and the notorious Alex Jones. It links him with very shady businesses like Midas Resources (http://www.midasresources.com/store/store.php?ref=62&promo=specialOffer) and related and opaque companies that promote the sale of gold and silver along with global conspiracy rants. It allies him with conservative libertarians like Ron Paul and Ted Anderson and with extremist Christian organizations.
The links these groups have with right-wing extremists and anti-Semites like Lyndon LaRouche (http://www.larouchepub.com/lar/2008/interviews/080401jack_blood_genesis.html) indicates the heritage of these conspiracy groups to the old rightist extremists that have also been associated with Nazis (e.g the John Birch Society - http://mediamatters.org/blog/201101290003. The LaRouche link to Land Destroyer is also seen in F.W. Engdahl, yet another conspiracy theorist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F._William_Engdahl).
Tony is also quoting and linking - like all of the above - to RT, previously known as Russia Today, run by the state-owned state-run RIA Novosti. What does that link mean? Is there a funding link? [Oh look, he quickly removed the link, but his buddies still have them.]
Now the connection is made to Sondhi Limthongkul and the yellow shirted ultra-royalists who have links to LaRouche and have repeatedly been racist, have engaged in all kinds of hate speech against political opponents and repeatedly come up with conspiracies that engender further hate (much like Tony himself).
You are your connections.
The troll should not be fed
The troll should not be fed folks, he should be ignored.
There is no point exposing him as a fraud, liar and poser, he already knows that. He knows he will attract odium for his statements and doesn't care because he is on a mission, and will bang on until hell freezes over or until folks like you and me, rational folks, give up and walk away, upon which he will claim victory - loudly. I have seen him use several techniques from Schopenhauer, all of which are designed to avoid and undermine sensible discussion, not create or support it..
I suspect Tony is only concerned with polluting discussion to the point where it just collapses, and with discrediting Prachatai for some reason - your guess would probably be as good as mine, but his affinity with the loony yellow agenda is obvious. People who are obsessive and embrace conspiracy theories are generally not of completely sound mind.
He is not looking for sensible discussion here, he is a troll.
He should not be fed, by feeding him we are helping to make his strategy effective.
Discredit Prachatai? Isn't
Discredit Prachatai? Isn't their claiming to be "independent" when they are fully funded by the US Government what discredits them? Or that the US National Endowment for Democracy, which funds Prachatai is packed full of warmongers, corporate-fascists, and certified Neo-Cons? Why am I the only one that feels Prachatai should be held accountable for their continued deceit and the still unanswered questions as to why they accept money from the scum of humanity?
"There is no point exposing him as a fraud, liar and poser, he already knows that." That sounds like the cop-out of the century.
The article above, is about evidence presented by Sondhi - not my conspiracy theories, but again:
1. Prachatai's own About Us page listing their extensive foreign-funding
2. US State Department's National Endowment for Democracy (NED) website listing Prachatai as a receipient of funding.
3. NED's Board of Directors clearly illustrating it is run by Neo-Cons, corporate fascists, monopolists, and warmongers.
4. US Senate archives containing Thaksin's lobbying registration - which include Edelman PR - from which the lobbyist Kenneth Adelman also sits as a trustee of Freedom House frequently cited by Prachatai - and who frequently supports Prachatai.
5. UDD's own website bragging about their audience with the US-ASEAN Business Council - Wall Street's .01%, NED (which also funds Prachatai), and HRW. It should also be noted that the same website has confirmed Robert Amsterdam, Thaksin's and UDD's lawyer/lobbyist attended Nitirat's, (UDD's rebrand) conference.
6. Thaksin's ties to Carlyle - which was even listed on the Carlyle website halfway through Thaksin's term as PM.
7. The fact that Carlyle Group member James Baker - through his lobbying firm, was still supporting Thaksin after 2006.
Are you honestly saying that by presenting this list, I am polluting discussion? Or that by simply ignoring and dismissing documented evidence ISN'T polluting rational debate? Sorry Postman, as hard as you just tried - you are just one of the many amongst the now nearly 50 comments avoiding real debate and making every excuse imaginable as to why the guy saying the unpopular things should just "shut up."
"Are you honestly saying that
"Are you honestly saying that by presenting this list, I am polluting discussion? "
Sorry my friend, I do not engage in futile and circular conversations with trolls.
You might not understand reality very well, but I'm sure you'll understand being shunned just fine.
I don't know about the
I don't know about the Schopenhauer, but otherwise think that's correct.
Check out Schopenhauer - "The
Check out Schopenhauer - "The Art of Controversy".
Google is your friend.
Well... Google is not my
Well... Google is not my friend, nor the friend of any living, breathing human on the plane, but the corporate exploiter of us all. But very useful at the same time, which is the point you really meant to make here, I'm sure.
Googling brought me to Project Gutenberg... which is our friend. And so I downloaded and formatted (pdf) to my taste.
May I return the favor? I also found Stephen Jay Gould's The Mismeasurement of Man (pdf) - a scanned version of the paperback and not such easy reading as the Gutenberg version of Schopenhauer - but we oughtn't bite the hands that feed us all so well, for free.
Sorry, that's The Mismeasure
Sorry, that's The Mismeasure of Man.
Another totally schizophrenic
Another totally schizophrenic rant from this madman!Always worth a read to have a nice laugh before going to bed!!! Keep it up mr S.L!
That is now 50+ comments and
That is now 50+ comments and not a single one of you dared actually deal rationally, objectively, and logically to the facts presented by Sondhi.
Calling people "crazy," "looney," "mad," etc., is indicative of intellectual capitulation. You attack with juvenile insults because you are utterly incapable of defending yourself intellectually.
Prachatai IS funded by Neo-Con corporate-fascist imperialists to destabilize and divide Thailand.
Thaksin IS backed by the largest lobbying firms on Earth, on behalf of Wall Street and London.
The UDD really DID write a letter and post it on their own website bragging about seeking support from Wall Street's 0.1% - the US-ASEAN Business Council.
The links at the bottom of the above article, as well as on ASTV's website lead to DIRECT evidence of these improprieties.
Thaksin's lobbyists really do have direct ties (Kenneth Adelman literally sits on the board of Freedom House) to foreign interests supporting Prachatai.
Prachatai & Co. are responding in the flailing, desperate manner you'd expect from a rat caught in the middle of the kitchen when the lights are turned on.
I think Tony your problem
I think Tony your problem (one of them) is you hijack every single article, start linking and posting in various directions and think readers are not expected, but obliged to follow up on you.
Write in the appropriate places.
I read a few things you refer to. ELSEWHERE. When I read here I read specific articles which interest me and I want to delve into. I do not want to be constantly imposed on by somebody who absolutely wants to force me to look at what he wants...now...and if I don't he will throw tantrums.
If I want to read about the US State dpt. Or the Carlyle group or how the arms manufacturers profits are linked to artificially created wars...I go elsewhere.
You are not dealing with children whom you can force to do as you want. We are quite capable of connecting the dots without your approval and you are not the one we are obliged to come to for confirmation or a pat on the head. You have the biggest ego I have ever seen anyone flaunt in his or her opinionating.
I too am just one person making personal comments. It is up to others to make of them what they will. I am not a slave owner nor of body nor of thought. Stop chastising everyone because they will not mirror your own inflated self-image as a know-it-all. We know more than you think and maybe...consider we do not feel it is anybody's business to force us to share when we do not want to do so.
You seem to be convinced you ave some legitimate authority and dictatorial rights to force people into your train of thought at any time under any circumstances.
Why not write an article yourself and find an appropriate outlet somewhere that wants to publish you?
This article you are
This article you are commenting on IS about Thaksin's advisory role with the Neo-Con infested US equity firm Carlyle, the US State Department, Prachatai's foreign funding via Neo-Con infested NED, and links between corporate fascists and the Thaksin, UDD, Prachatai agenda.
The facts are enumerated, referenced, and sourced directly to NED's official website, US Senate's archives, Prachatai's own website, UDD's own website, etc.
You have failed utterly to address the topic of the article, or the facts contained there in and are now reprimanding me for "forcing you" to read information DIRECTLY related to the article. If you don't want to read it, don't, no one is "forcing" you to do anything.
If rational debate upsets you so much - inform Prachatai to change their "about us" section, and reword it to "Thaksin fan club - all critics not welcome." Because the open debate premise is obviously just lip service.
Absolutely riveting stuff!
Absolutely riveting stuff! But Postman is right, tony should really be left alone to nurture his delusions. The relentless repetition of mantras, the cliche laden language - "corporate fascists" "corporate warmongers" "imperialists" and so on ad nauseum - are all clear indications of a classic conspiracy theory obsessive. For an earlier generation it was "reds under the bed" and similar nonsense.
I am sure that Prachatai and others are being funded by those who seek to support organisations fighting for freedom, justice and democracy in Thailand. The UDD may well have been seeking funding in the USA, and why not? They also raise large sums from their millions of members and supporters in Thailand.
I wonder why tony claimed that "joss stick" is a member of the UDD. So what? What relevance does this have to his deranged theories? Is he suggesting that this somehow legitimises the vitriolic abuse and threats rained down upon her, and the attempts to destroy her academic study opportunities? If so, then he is beneath contempt.
I also wonder why tony is not similarly obsessed with the source of funding and logistical support for Sondhi and his friends in the PAD.
That makes 60+ comments
That makes 60+ comments completely failing to address the facts in the presentation and instead resorting to a myriad of insults and personal attacks. Very progressive!
You are sure Prachatai is funded by people above board? How are you sure? Did you check out National Endowment for Democracy's board of directors and look into their backgrounds? Unlikely. There is conspiracy theory - unfounded opinions - and then there is conspiracy fact.
NED's BoD is in fact chaired by Neo-Conservatives who have signed their names to extra-legal declarations of war, calls for global American hegemony.
Their names are as follows:
Francis Fukuyama: Neo-Con, Project for a New American Century (PNAC) signatory, pro-war
Zalmay Khalilzad: Neo-Con PNAC signatory, pro-war + corporate lobbyist
Will Marshall: Neo-Con PNAC signatory, pro-war
Vin Weber: Neo-Con PNAC signatory, pro-war + corporate lobbyist
Then there are the corporate-fascists - men and women who serve corporations, not the people or their stated agenda of "spreading freedom."
Richard Gephardt: pro-war, corporate lobbyist for big-pharma, Boeing & Ford Motor Co.
John Bohn: petrochemicals, corporate consultant & international banker for 13 years
Rita DiMartino: CFR, AT&T "Vice President of Congressional Relations"
Kenneth Duberstein: Boeing, ConocoPhillips, Mack-Cali Realty, CFR member & Fannie Mac
William Galston: Brookings Institution
Moises Naim: Carnegie Endowment for International Peace
Robert Miller: corporate lawyer
Larry Liebenow: US Chamber of Commerce, Center for International Private Enterprise
Noam Chomsky, as far back as 1993 stated of NED's work that it was, "an attempt to impose what is called democracy, meaning rule by the rich and the powerful, without interference by the mob but within the framework of formal electoral procedures."
So no, Prachatai is not funded by "those who seek to support organisations fighting for freedom, justice and democracy in Thailand." But by self-serving, warmongering corporate fascists. UDD, likewise.
Joss Stick is a UDD member - UDD is a foreign-funded movement seeking to overthrow Thailand's sovereign institutions - they have tried twice through armed insurrection. They are not a legitimate political organization, rather one of terrorism. That's why Joss Sticks' membership is relevant.
I agree. Ignore Tony. He's
I agree. Ignore Tony. He's completely mad. Engaging him is a complete waste. I think its wonderful that Sondhi has taken up Tony's rants. Exposes him for what he is.
Yet another entirely baseless
Yet another entirely baseless comment insulting and mocking factual evidence instead of confronting it in a rational, logical, objective manner.
If you were mature, and my "rants" so unhinged, it should be a simple matter to effectively dismiss them with ample documented evidence. Instead, you attack people because you are incapable of defending yourself intellectually.
Prachatai's funding is a matter of official record - on their own "About Us" page, and evident on NED's official website. NED's board of directors clearly illustrates individuals whose agendas directly conflict with their supposed "pro-democracy" "pro-freedom" agendas.
Thaksin's US support is evident from official US Senate archive documents signed and dated by each of his immensely influential lobbying representatives. The UDD wrote and signed a letter, published on one of their official chapter's websites bragging about their seeking support from Wall Street's 1% and the same organizations concurrently funding Prachatai.
These are facts that illustrate not a conspiracy 'theory' but a conspiracy fact. Copping out won't change these facts, and people with truly progressive minds who want to be on the side of right and truth will find them and verify them no matter how hard you try to bury them with your juvenile diversions.
Now we have a new one - "self
Now we have a new one - "self serving warmongering corporate fascists" Oh dear! UDD is funded by many of its Thai members and supporters, and if it also obtains donations from abroad, then that's fine. The same applies to Prachatai.
My wife is active within the UDD, particularly in fundraising. Donations come from all sections of society, including many well educated, well informed "middle class" and "upper class" Thais who do not conform to the "ignorant buffaloes" jibe so favoured by Sondhi and his friends. Unlike Sondhi, who has recently called for a military coup, these UDD supporters simply aspire to a more democratic Thailand. tony's comments are insulting to millions of Thai people.
I notice tony hasn't responded to my query about the PAD's funding and support. Perhaps that's too sensitive a subject for him to address.
Sorry that is an outright lie
Sorry that is an outright lie - according to Prachatai's own About Us page, anywhere between 70-100 percent of their funding year to year comes from the US government and US corporate-funded organizations. They would not exist without it and the endless torrent of political support lent to them by these corporate-fascist interests.
http://prachatai.com/english/aboutus
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/exposed-indy-newspaper-funded-by-us.html
Robin - you cite your wife and make broad sweeping generalizations without providing a shred of evidence, just as you claim Sondhi has in Red Shirts being simply brainwashed, exploited, simpletons. However, one look at the Nitirat crowd dressed up like children wearing the same shirts and adorning their bodies with Thaksin and Yingluck images as you might expect in Pyongyang North Korea - seems more to the mark of exploited ignorant masses than your "educated well informed" myth.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2012/01/globalist-lawyer-attends-color.html
I hear what you're saying, but your evidence (you have none) doesn't quite match your wishful thinking. UDD is a cult of Thaksin - this is what it was from the beginning, this is exactly what it is now. Thailand's current PM was elected simply because her last name is Shinawatra. The election motto was literally, "Thaksin Thinks, Peua Thai Does," this was printed on signs posted across the nation.
Nice try Robin back to the drawing board. Next time bring some evidence aside from a "wife" who may or may not even exist. You remind me of "Ricefield Radio" - who has a wife that is a teacher when talking about educational issues, and a doctor when defending Thaksin's health care. I have never met a bunch of connivers as shameless and depraved as those here at Prachatai.
tony conforms to the old
tony conforms to the old adage of "once in a hole, keep digging"
Before our marriage, 36 years ago, my wife (no need for the inverted commas) was a Bank executive and, like some of her friends who are also UDD members, completed her education abroad. I am sure all of them, whether educated in Thailand or elsewhere, have a far greater understanding of the issues affecting their homeland than tony. "Brainwashed, exploited simpletons" they are most definitely not. tony denigrates his critics for using what he claims is abusive language, yet himself resorts to empty, meaningless insults. Truly pathetic.
tony, taking my cue from your repetitive style, I still await your response to my query regarding the source of funding and support for Sondhi and his chums in the PAD.
Still no evidence Robin. I
Still no evidence Robin. I can just as easily say I have extensive experience talking with Red Shirts: they are horribly exploited, uneducated, though decent folks who simply repeat verbatim a handful of catch phrases they've heard on community radio. They carry portraits of Thaksin around at rallies like a Kim Jong Ill personality cult. When handed direct evidence of Thaksin's ties to Wall Street, they believe it to be a hoax and dismiss it out of hand despite it being drawn directly from the US Senate's own archives and even Thaksin himself admitting to it.
That is the vast majority of UDD supporters, by far. This miniscule foreign educated minority you speak of are the same sort of people who think elections in America determine the American people's destiny. They do not, they are sadly mistaken and as the old adage goes, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. They are far too arrogant with their little knowledge to seek the truth to its logical conclusion.
Here is some evidence regarding how democracy really works - and why your "educated wife" is really no smarter than red shirts sporting Kim Jong Ill portraits of Thaksin at rallies ....
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/03/naming-names-your-real-government.html
If you think a nation's salvation lies in a mob organized and funded by a mass murdering billionaire autocrat working overtly for Wall Street, you obviously didn't stay awake in all those classes that "educated" you.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/confirmed-thailands-pro-democracy.html
Who funds Sondhi? You tell
Who funds Sondhi? You tell me. I have found no ties between him and foreign corporate-fascist interests. If you mean someone within Thailand is funding him - that is of little interest to me - I cover geopolitics and am a stanch opponent of global corporate fascism. I will pick a nationalist regime over a global corporate fascist oligarchy ANY DAY as the lesser of two evils. Proving or disproving Sondhi is funded by political groups domestically is not on my list of things to do.
I guess in your bizarre world, Sondhi being funded by Thais is just as offensive as Prachatai being subsidized by the US government who actively seeks hegemony over Asia and will do so by overthrowing nationalist regimes and create a collectivist, economically integrated superstate to rule over - and that somehow that makes it ok for Prachatai to lie about being independent.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/11/hillary-clinton-and-new-american.html
At the end of the day, I, in almost every article I write, reiterate that the real solution is pragmatism and self-sufficiency, I have a whole section titled "SOLUTIONS" where I talk about real empowerment through education and technical solutions to people's problems implemented not by politicians of ANY stripe, but by the people themselves.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/search/label/solutions
TC: Who funds Sondhi? You
TC: Who funds Sondhi? You tell me.
TC: I guess in your bizarre world, Sondhi being funded by Thais...
Yawn. He doesn't know but then he does. Like magic isn't it?
Perhaps you don't know because none of Sondhi's outlets provide any funding information. We do know that for a while he was underwritten by Thaksin. We do know he went bust but stayed personally wealthy.
But conspiricists should stick together in their own construction of the world.
Sondhi is providing verified
Sondhi is providing verified facts in the above article and in the links - you are fishing for shadows of innuendos to not even refute the above documented facts, but to instead attack personally the messenger. This is logical fallacy and the tactics of a stunted intellect.
When you can explain why Prachatai excepts money and support from warmongering Neo-cons, organizations chaired by THaksin lobbyists (Freedom House), corporate fascists, and documented CIA assets - you might be finally, on topic, and intellectually functional.
They aren't verified facts.
They aren't verified facts. They are the conspiracy theories of TC. They aren't documented they are well-known points constructed into a conspiracy which is supported by nonsense and fabrications. It is swill.
The conspiricists are right-wing extremists funded by US precious metals dealers.
And finally Robin- again,
And finally Robin- again, through all your diversions, you have still managed to sidestep the actual evidence provided by Sondhi.
1. Prachatai's verified foreign funding.
2. NED's website confirming it.
3. NED's BoD & its members respective backgrounds
4. US Senate archives confirming US corporate-financier interests lobbying on his behalf.
5. UDD's own website bragging about their trip to see the US-ASEAN Business Council, literally the 1% of the 1%.
6. Hillary Clinton's Hitlerian hegemonic declaration of intent to reassert American dominance across Asia and to do so by aligning ASEAN to American interests, etc.
Is it because you can't deal with these verified documented facts that you so desperately divert the debate away from them? Whatever Sondhi's funding, background, etc., may be, you still must objectively examine the evidence and weigh it rationally and logically.
Believe it or not, I do not dismiss out of hand anything, say Prachatai says - or for that matter Nitirat - despite it being an overt fraud. In fact, I said I would give great consideration to supporting Nitrat's agenda if they agreed to call for the dismantling of the bizarre personality cult and political machine Thaksin has menaced Thailand with for so many years in tandem with the post-coup measures.
That's it for me, I've had
That's it for me, I've had quite enough of this clown.
He diverts discussions with off-topic posts and then slags everyone off for not following his off-topic topic, which is always the same collection of dodgy factoids and even dodgier assumptions and inferences. Quite frankly, I think that he is either off his trolley or is in the pay of someone to bring down Prachatai. Either way, he's playing way out of my ball park.
Whatever, that's it for me, if he is not banned then I'm off. I doubt anyone will be dismayed at that but it is what it is. I can't stand this shite any more and to be candid, I'm fucked if this clown is going to set my agenda for me.
You're a coward and a
You're a coward and a hypocrite - and have failed to post a single comment on topic - a topic that I have been addressing in each of my comments - that is the evidence Sondhi put forth in his presentation.
You name call, mock, belittle, and do everything but actually deal with the facts on hand and either confirm or refute them with logic and reason.
Prachatai can go ahead and try to ban me at the cost of their own credibility - they will be banning someone that posted on-topic with documented evidence complete with functioning links in favor of a vulgar, condescending hypocrite that enjoys bullying people and immediately wets himself the moment he encounters an adversary capable of fighting back.
By banning me, who simply introduces a counter balance to the incessant sycophantic emotional diatribes regularly filling up the comment sections, Prachatai will prove that they are just as eager and willing to silence contrary points of view as they claim their opponents are and lose the last piece of high ground they may or may not even have at this point.
Again, I didn't make Prachatai take blood money from the US government and hide it for years. I'm holding them accountable as they claim they want all equally held accountable in Thai society.
As to Sondhi's
As to Sondhi's funding:
(quotes from Wikipedai)
With the election of Thaksin Shinawatra as Prime Minister in 2001, several of Sondhi's associates became leaders in the new government. His banker(former finance director), Viroj Nualkhair, became president of state-owned Krung Thai Bank and gave more than a billion baht in "debt forgiveness" to Sondhi, allowing him to emerge from bankruptcy. Sondhi became a vocal supporter of Thaksin, calling him "the best prime minister our country has ever had.
We do know The PAD consists of mainly of royalist upper and middle-class Bangkokians and Southerners, supported by the conservative factions of the Thai Army, some leaders of Democrat Party, and (formally but no longer) members of state-enterprise labor unions.
The PAD is largely composed of royalists, has regularly invoked king Bhumibol Adulyadej in its protests, and has claimed that its enemies are disloyal to the monarchy. Q 112.
We know who the true sponsor is and bankrolls the PAD but it's not safe to mention.
The Bangkok police were disarmed by the army when Swampy airport was occupied by the PAD.
300000 tourists were stranded but they were of no consequence to those engineering the constitutional coup of 2008.
A similar event I suspect is now being arranged.
Talk now is that Sindhi is again bankrupt.
Quotes from the Irrawadi state:
ASTV reportedly incurred expenses of Bt30-40 million baht a month, with royalist supporters contributing Bt3-4 million baht a month, Sondhi told the website. Chamlong Srimuang, a fellow Yellow Shirt leader, contributed the proceeds of sales of fertilizers.
“I’ve endured and struggled for over seven years,” Sondhi was quoted as saying. “But I can’t bear all this alone. I’ve had to sell personal property worth over Bt 1 billion. Some people have offered us money on condition that we change sides, but we refused.”
“ASTV goods yield a profit of only over one million baht a month. The SMS has only about 40,000 subscribers, as opposed to the original target of 1-200,000. And there are no adverts because no one wants to place any, since this is a TV station which capitalists don’t want to support because we’re too independent.”
You yanks should have let us brits sought this lot out at the end of the war. "Tony" and his friends wouldn't have the power they now wield in one of the most corrupt countries on earth.
So Tuttle, Sondhi being
So Tuttle, Sondhi being funded by Thais is somehow worse than Prachatai being funded by US corporate fascists, Thaksin having direct ties to Wall Street and attempting to sell the country out to the US-ASEAN Business Council, and for UDD leaders to literally be seeking support from NED, the US-ASEAN Business Council and others in DC before the 2011 elections?
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/confirmed-thailands-pro-democracy.html
Is that seriously what you're trying to say? What is wrong with Thai people supporting Thai media? Why can't you see that a foreign nation funding media outlets constitutes treason and neo-imperialism, especially when NED's board of directors are all certifiable warmongers, corporate fascists, and confessed Neo-Conservatives? These are people that have mass murdered millions of people in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Somalia, Yemen, Pakistan, currently in Syria, covertly in Iran, Uganda, etc.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/11/ned-freedom-house-are-run-by.html
So again - your 'revelations' concerning Sondhi are both irrelevant to my argument, as well as irrelevant to the evidence he produced during the above mentioned presentation.
I don't just expose Prachatai because they are funded by the US, I expose them because they are lying, the funding explains why they are lying and on whose behalf.
tony, You are really losing
tony,
You are really losing it! I did not deny that Prachatai and the UDD received foreign funding. So they did, so what?
Your further demeaning and derogatory remarks aimed at millions of Thai people, not least my wife, provide ample justification for bringing this increasingly ludicrous exchange to a conclusion. I am sorry to have come across someone so seemingly consumed by bitterness and rage as you are, but console myself with the certain knowledge that the vast majority of Thai people, irrespective of educational attainment and political affiliation, will remain blissfully unaware of your deranged rantings (Hillary Clinton's "Hitlerian hegemonic declaration" - for God's sake!) They will I am sure eventually work out a better future for their country in their own way and in their own good time.
Prachatai deserve praise for allowing you to use their website to broadcast your insults and nonsensical theories. I doubt if Sondhi and his cohorts at ASTV Manager would be so accomodating and open minded.
No hard feelings, however. I wish you well in what I fear will be a never ending, pointless and unsuccessful struggle with your Wall Street corporate fascist demons. As the old Yorkshire saying goes "There's nowt so queer as folk"
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